Louisiana Classic Truck Club

Here's another one for you painters that are smarter than me, lol. As you probably know, I use alot of Napa's crossfire line mainly because it's my only reasonable choice here in town, and it works pretty well. The only gripes that I have is that it's not recommended for blending, so it's tough to blend the metalics. I've blended dupont and for tough blends they recomend mixing 175k binder? with a blending reducer?, then mixing that with the ready to spray paint for the blend. Crossfire doesn't offer any kind of blending products that I know of, but I'd like to try something like that with the crossfire. Should I just use binder and a slow? reducer?

Try the PPG DBC 500. I would spray a peice to check for compatability, but since its a urethane there shouldnt be a problem but you never know. I would try it on something that doesnt matter first and clear it, then you will know for sure.

I've heard that Crossfire is a modified enamel, that's why I was trying to stay with Crossfire products, but if you think they will mix I'll try it. I'll try to see what they offer too.

I dont know about the Crossfire Wynne. Is it a urethane enamel? If so, you should be ok but I would test it.

Any other kind of blended enamel is a definate no. The cheaper lines will sometimes do that, so thats the ones you have to watch.

outlawc wrote:I dont know about the Crossfire Wynne. Is it a urethane enamel? If so, you should be ok but I would test it.

Any other kind of blended enamel is a definate no. The cheaper lines will sometimes do that, so thats the ones you have to watch.

The guy that I buy from is trying to help me, but he doesn't really know. He thinks it's a acrylic enamel because he mixes it the same as acrylic enamel, and simply adds another component to make base out of it. He also said that he doesn't think that the rep knows that much about it, but he's going to ask.

I've used the Crossfire before and it's a PITA to deal with blend wise.
It "reducer" specific as I've tried everything from PPG reducer to Dupont Basemaker to make it "work" and it's no dice. I HAD to use C/F reducer for it to work right.
Think of it as Dupont's Nason line only worse.
The 175 will help if thats all you can get but,I spray my base first then the 175 and repeat. REMEMBER, the 175 is a S-L-O-W flashing blender,this is why it melts in,so give it a little extra flash time or you'll end up with a melted mess.
If you can get some U-Pol Fade Out,it's a spray bomb and just solvent,will work out better for this.
This is from Barry on how to use it. Yeah,it works.

Have the can setting next to you all shook-up, spray your first coat of base and with out waiting take the can and spray a medium wet coat over the whole base spotted area, then let flash as normal, do the same thing with each coat of base.
Spray first coat of clear and right away spray a medium wet coat over the spotted area and let flash as normal, do the same with every coat.

Here is what you will get, you will not see the base blend that you see in blacks and darker colors and the clear will be melted in so you can sand and not roll up the edges and you did not thin the clear down so the edge will not bleach out down the road.

Other wise, Use some SLOW C/F reducer in place of the Fade out with a seperate gun.
Last ditch effort is,use an airbrush to blend you base into the original.I've done this as well and it will work.Not "perfect" but does the job.

Thanks Mike. I talked to a couple of people today and everybody tells me that there is nothing that I can mix with it to help, but that using adhesion promoter as a pre coat will help. It's something that I've been wondering about, so now I know and learned alot more in the process. Thanks again guys!

Hummm??
I not "buying" the AP first. This makes no sense.
I would use some intercoat clear or even C/F binder.
THis goes back to your other post about IC and using it to blend with.
It will fill the scuff scratch and provide an even surface to spray your metallic over so your flop will be even instead of the base shrinking into the scratch.

Mike, I would guess that they recomended adhesion promoter because it works similar to a blending solvent by softening the existing surface prior to the first coat of base, just not as aggressively as a blending solvent.

I dont know and this is just a guess based on what I know about what each product does chemically, but I am thinking that since the adhesion promoter will soften the surface some (just not as much as a blending solvent), it might work if you also used over reduced base mixture to put alittle more solvent to the already softened surface to give you a very mild "melt", plus, the over reduced base would also be more transparent as it extends out past the repair area? One potential problem I could think of is the color of the adhesion promoter throwing the color off. They all have a slight tint to them dont they? The PPG ones I use definately are, they have a red/pink tint to them.

You would have to be careful the same as you would with a blending solvent but in theory it could work.

I dont know Wynne, I would have to try that first! It might fry the crap out of it.

Wheres Kevin? He hasnt been on much lately. I would talk to Kevin Wynne, he has got us all beat on experience. Speaking for myself, he's forgot more than I will ever know. I know he can help you out.

I'm not done yet, I plan to do a little bit of testing with it. The rep recomended using tec-base adhesion promoter, but I talked to a painter that said that he uses Bulldog because it's cheaper. He also said that he starts his blend away from the repair and works back towards it, without over reducing his base. I've always worked out from the repair. Yeah Kevin's probably blended more than he can count, and knows better than to use the cheap crap! I'm just still ignorant enough to try it!

Ah Ha! So I was thinking along the same lines, well close anyway! Sounds like you are on to something. Keep us posted on what you find out, I am curious to know how it worked.

Hey, dont think you are the only one that dont use the most expensive paints on everything. I used alot of Omni in the past and you would not be able to tell the difference, only me and the customer knows. I was told by a PPG rep that the main difference was in the accuracy of the toners/tints in the mixing bank which made it hard to use for matching. Other than that there was nothing wrong with the paint itself.

Wynne, I've always used Duponts' 222 Midcoat Adhesion Promoter. I seal the repair area and then midcoat the rest of the panel. The main reason that I use the 222 is that sanded clearcoat looks like sanded clearcoat. With a coat of 222 sprayed over it, It looks like basecoat without any clearcoat. Now when I go to make my blend I can tell a little more on how the color is going blend out. Most times I just extend every coat of color a little further out than the last. This only works if the color is a pretty good match to start with. 222 also seems to help with the halo effect that you sometimes get with the lighter metallics.
I have used the binder method before and it works OK. Just be sure to use some type of medium with your reduced color, becauce if you use reduced color only to blend it tends to make the halo effect worse because the flake in the color tends to flatten out and not stay suspended.
I also use the inside out blend method. I tried the outside in method and it just didn't work for me.

Interestering take on the AP, Never really "thought" about that aspect of it.
It would deffinetly be less aggressive than the 175,that stuff is really hot and stays wet a long time.
I know the first blend I did with some turned ugly real quick before I realized how slow it was.
The 222S "looks" yellow in the can but thats because the can liner is gold but it sprays out clear.
I've tried both ways of spraying and the inside out works better for me as well.
I know after watching HOK's repair vid that Kos steps the metallic base down with each coat using intercoat as he finishs the blend on kandy jobs and the same with the kandy.You cutting the base with a clear liquid so you stay consistant in the chemical make up instead of cutting it with reducer and weaking the base's properties.
This is one of the "things" about blending,Everybody has a different take on the procedure and it really takes practice and trying different approachs to find what works for YOU.
Thanks Kevin.

65StreetCruiser wrote:I have used the binder method before and it works OK. Just be sure to use some type of medium with your reduced color, becauce if you use reduced color only to blend it tends to make the halo effect worse because the flake in the color tends to flatten out and not stay suspended.
.

That's what I'm wanting to do, because I've used dupont's method for "hard to blend colors", and had the best results, but it looks like that's not an option with Crossfire. It looks "motley" or has light/dark spots in the blend area. I'll let yall know what happens. Thanks